Tony Halpin in Moscow
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The Kremlin moved swiftly to tighten its grip on Georgia’s breakaway regions yesterday as South Ossetia announced that it would soon become part of Russia, which will open military bases in the province under an agreement to be signed on Tuesday.
Tarzan Kokoity, the province’s Deputy Speaker of parliament, announced that South Ossetia would be absorbed into Russia soon so that its people could live in “one united Russian state” with their ethnic kin in North Ossetia.
The declaration came only three days after Russia defied international criticism and recognised South Ossetia and Georgia’s other separatist region of Abkhazia as independent states. Eduard Kokoity, South Ossetia’s leader, agreed that it would form part of Russia within “several years” during talks with Dmitri Medvedev, the Russian President, in Moscow.
The disclosure will expose Russia to accusations that it is annexing land regarded internationally as part of Georgia. Until now, the Kremlin has insisted that its troops intervened solely to protect South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgian “aggression”.
Interfax news quoted an unidentified Russian official as saying that Moscow also planned to establish two bases in Abkhazia. Sergei Shamba, Abkhazia’s Foreign Minister, said that an agreement on military co-operation would be signed within a month.
The Russian Foreign Ministry confirmed that agreements on “peace, co-operation and mutual assistance with Abkhazia and South Ossetia” were being prepared on the orders of President Medvedev. Abkhazia said that it would ask Russia to represent its interests abroad.
Georgia announced that it was recalling all diplomatic staff from its embassy in Moscow in protest at the continued Russian occupation of its land in defiance of a ceasefire agreement brokered by President Sarkozy of France. The parliament in Tbilisi declared Abkhazia and South Ossetia to be under Russian occupation.
Gigi Tsereteli, the Vice-Speaker, dismissed the threat of South Ossetia becoming part of Russia, saying: “The world has already become different and Russia will not long be able to occupy sovereign Georgian territory.
“The regimes of Abkhazia and South Ossetia should think about the fact that if they become part of Russia, they will be assimilated, and in this way they will disappear.”
Lado Gurgenidze, the Prime Minister of Georgia, scrapped agreements that had permitted Russian peacekeepers to operate in the two regions after wars in the early 1990s. He called for their replacement by international troops.
Vyacheslav Kovalenko, Moscow’s Ambassador to Georgia, described Tbilisi’s decision to sever relations as “a step towards further escalation of tensions with Russia and the desire to drive the situation into an even worse deadlock”.
Russia attacked the G7 after the United States, Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Canada and Japan condemned its “excessive use of military force in Georgia”. In a joint statement, they had called on Russia to “implement in full” the French ceasefire agreement.
The Foreign Ministry said that the G7 was “justifying Georgian acts of aggression” and insisted that Moscow had met its obligations under the six-point agreement.
Having been rebuffed on Thursday by China and four Central Asian states, Russia will seek support next week from the Collective Security Treaty Organisation (CSTO) for its recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The CSTO comprises Russia and the former Soviet republics of Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.
The signing of the military agreement with South Ossetia will take place the day after an emergency summit of European Union leaders to discuss the crisis. The French presidency of the EU said that sanctions against Russia were not being considered, contradicting an earlier statement by Bernard Kouchner, the Foreign Minister.
Russia told the EU that any sanctions would be damaging to both sides. Andrei Nesterenko, a Foreign Ministry official, said: “We hope that common sense will prevail over emotions and that EU leaders will find the strength to reject a one-sided assessment of the conflict . . . Neither party needs the confrontation towards which some countries are being energetically pushed by the EU.”
Russia also lashed out at Nato, saying that it had “no moral right” to pass judgment on the recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The Foreign Ministry said: “Further sliding to confrontation with Russia and attempts to put pressure on us are unacceptable, as they can entail irreversible consequences in the military-political climate and in stability on the continent.”
The US confirmed that the flagship of its Sixth Fleet, the USS Mount Whitney, would deliver aid to Georgia next week. Two other warships are moored off Georgia’s Black Sea port of Batumi, and Russia has ordered its fleet to take “precautionary measures”.
Mr Medvedev has accused the US of shipping weapons to Georgia along with aid, a claim dismissed as “ridiculous” by the White House.
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To: Ojisan, Seattle, U.S.A
But Americans, of course, will save them. What a lie! Germany and France are our brother countries, notwithstanding Hitlet and Napoleon. They were stupid rulers and I am talking about people living in those countries. US can only bring trouble to others.
Vitaly, Moscow, Russia
Communism is over,the soviet union cant be reunited again.undertsand russia we are not in the 1940s,you are losing your own war of ignorance.
david, southampton, uk
The one who desires to clearify the real mater of things can find the information himself and not to belive to the sourses which lie to people to cater the politicians.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nadezhda&Maks, Ufa/Moscow, Russia
Andrey, Moscow, RF
Do you really believe and just imagine that Georgia, which population is 4.000.000 and maybe less, could ever dare to fight against Russia.? Nonsence!
Georgia can only fight those separatist regimes RF finances and poisons from the very 90s'.
Virginia, Modena, Italy
Napoleon wanted to finish with G.B. and started the war against Russia; Hitler wanted to finish with G.B. and started the same war. Suffers Russia and other countries, never G.B. Now you play with Ukraine. You are very smart guys. Hope one day you will outsmart yourself. Note: G.B. = US nowdays
Ilya, S-Petersburg, Russia
This is completely lie!!!! Try to find any interview with russian officilas saying it ---you ll never managed to do it as it s just western propaganda!!!!
Maria, St Petersburg,
The title is questionable :) There is NO such Russian official statement. The ONLY source is an opposition radio quoting: [South-Ossetian Speaker said "South and North Ossetia will unite in few years, within Russia, as Medvedev and Ed.Kokoity discussed". Ed.Kokoity disapproved this].
Olga, Chisinau, Republic of Moldova
If this is such a shock to American public, why don't you people look up how your own country had occupied Hawaii, Peurto Rico, etc
Setup fake vote to gain Alaska by overwhelming the population with US troops who were then allowed to vote while the native population could not even read in English
A.A., Melbourne, Australia
Fellow American citizens! WE ARE SO BRAIN WASHED!
Gary, PHILADELPHIA,
Do you really belive that Russia wanted the war? Well, you probably know little about RF.
And I hope all people around the world who want to be independent would act so and feel so.
Andrey, Moscow, RF
If the people of South Ossetia wants to join their North Ossetian brothers, let them by allowing them to move north into Russia Proper.
So why the Kosovars did not go to Albania ?
Leonard, Sardinia,
I can't wait for Russia to argue for regime change in Georgia. The US did it to Iraq when it did not like Saddam. Saakashvilli will suffer the same fate.
To topple down Saddam, US got stuck in the mud of a military and political quagmire . Russians are not so fool...
Leonard, Sardinia,
The fact that Mr.Putin is an ex-KGB spy just tells that he is very smart. And a smart enemy is better than a stupid friend.
Alex, Munich, Germany
That's it (see Sakashvili for what a stupid friend is, and causes...)...
Leonard, Sardinia,
Russia wants to control her resources - in particular oil - and will succeed.
The US wants to control that oil and any pretext will do - by force, bluff or any means possible - and will fail.
All else is secondary and relevant only to the extent it can be applied to the above mentioned dilemma.
Christopher Drake , London , UK
A nuclear armed Germany? Pal, it you need wake up. Germany it is peaceful country now. They have not own nuclear weapon. Where from so much aggressiveness?
Alex, Simferopol, Ukraine
Wake up Germany, the Russian bear is back. Only a nuclear armed Germany can stand up to the Russians. They will also need the cojones of the ancestors. Both very unlikely to occur.
Flores de la Hoz, cranford, USA
US politcians have learned nothing from Napolean and Hitler? US politicians are very much like Napolean and HItler!
Steve, Mobile, US
Dr. Lielmanis,
As my wife is from your mother country, I would add this concer; What will Russia do with the 1.3 million ethnic Russians that do not want Baltic Citizenship, but yet remain? I pray the citizens of Daugavpils do not push for "secession."
CPT (P) Timothy J. Barrett, El Gorah, Egypt
"European sheeps are no match against the Russian wolf. One by one, slowly but surely each will fall. Good -bye France, Germany and the rest. End is so near!"
Ojisan, Seattle, U.S.A
Where do you want to go the sheeps?, with the "pure innocent angel U.S.A"? and with your great humanitarian government ? U.S.A lost the confidence of the world.
Marcos, México, México
guys, that's not true. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are not going to be parts of Russia. military bases will apear for sure as a military cooperation, but no one considers for these states to join Russia!
Amir, Moscow, Russia
Alex- How strange of thing to say -from GERMANY! Guess you forgot your history.
Will, Houston, USA
Russia must be in need of defeat again! A new Cold War? Perhaps they want a redo and make it hot this time. So be it. America will answer, as we always have with our brave young men and women. Will Europe? That is the real question. I think the Russians already know that answer. Not good!
Tom, Seattle, USA
George S., Athens, Greece: You can't justify Russia's actions in Georgia by USA's actions in Iraq (or by Germany's actions in Poland 1939, for that matter). I did not approve of USA's attack on Iraq. And contrary to your beliefs Finland has had rather good relations with Russia for decades.
Lauri, Kaarina, Finland
It is ridiculous even to dream that Russia will leave South
Ossetia and Abkhazia.Next step ?The peninsula of
Crimea which is not part of Ukreine.The U.S. politicians
have learned nothing from Napoleon and Hitler.
B.Benzi, Cesena, Italy
Good line OOGA, consider it stolen.
'To appease or not to appease, that is the question"...cowards know the answer and are constantly surprised at the unhappy consequences of appeasement.
Unfortunately statesmen such as Churchill no longer stride the corridors of Britains' Parliament, only midgets.
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada.
If the people of South Ossetia wants to join their North Ossetian brothers, let them by allowing them to move north into Russia Proper.
LEAVE the GEORGIAN LAND to GEORGIA!!!!!!!!
Tae, Daegu, S. Korea
The fact that Mr.Putin is an ex-KGB spy just tells that he is very smart. And a smart enemy is better than a stupid friend.
Alex, Munich, Germany
Hiroshima, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq - what a bloody murderer killed millions there? What a surprise: it was not imperialistic Russia, but rather the most democratic country in the world, the United States of America!
Alex, Munich, Germany
Thus we see the great Russian liberation... another people absorbed into the Russian regime without referendum. Long live Russian liberty and democracy. Here ends the era of Bush's foolishness, and begins a new world of Medvedev's hypocrisy.
John, Sheffield, UK
The German people in 1990, the Albanians in 2008, the Ossetians in 2009. We'll also see how the korean people will live together. There is nothing wrong with destroying false borders. Instead ot them will be real natural borders.
Tamir, Novosibirsk, Russia
Mikheil Saakashvilli's decision to attack his defenseless neighbor was unjustified. This reckless and murderous act by Georgia's irresponsible leader led to death and destruction for innocent civilians, and altered politics for the western world. Putin has every reason to mistrust NATO and to react.
John D Kirkman, Chicago, USA
Appeasement and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.......and blah. Yup, too much talk and no action will do this. European sheeps are no match against the Russian wolf. One by one, slowly but surely each will fall. Good -bye France, Germany and the rest. End is so near!
Ojisan, Seattle, U.S.A
As to the Russian invasion of a sovereign country and annexation of part of its territory--An excellent artilce in the "Weekend Journal" section of the August 30-31, 2008 "Wall Street Journal." Headlined "Power Play," by Robert Kagan, it is a must read. Also available online at "OpinionJournal."
Terry L. Walker, Ladson, SC / USA
I am not quite sure why the title says Kremlin announces, and then the article says that one of S Ossetia's officials made this statement. What is the official Kremlin's line?
Nik, Moscow/Sydney, Russia
I think the world should admit the idea to transform a Russian Empires province into the Georgian state has been a big fault to become a huge disaster for small nationalities to live under Kartvelian (Georgian) regime. Following human rights way the world should give opportunity of freedom of choice other nationalities living in the artificially created country.
Alexey, Moscow,
Russia's imperialistic ambitions are becoming extremely clear.. If Western Governments were smart they would demand the immediate withdrawal of Russian forces from Abkhazia and South Ossetia and send NATO forces there to protect the borders of Georgia.
Barry, New York, USA
I can't wait for Russia to argue for regime change in Georgia. The US did it to Iraq when it did not like Saddam. Saakashvilli will suffer the same fate.
Ann, Hong Kong, China
Can the supporters of the Georgia/US in this conflict please explain why these countries did not let through the resolution proposed by Russia at the SC of UNO on 8/8 at 3:00 GMT requiring "stop use of military force"? Russian tanks have not left Russia yet, but Tshinvali has already been destroyed.
Alex, Munich, Germany
Poland is next
chris, germantown,
Russia will certainly rise again, but only after the autocrats are gone.
One day it will have free and fair elections as opposed to the farce that led to this present government which controlles the media.
Rudolph, Czechoslovakia was never integrated into the USSR, but it was occupied by it.
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada.
Clearly, Putin is nuts.
Russia, the largest country on the planet, is about to get 0.001% bigger.
Why?
gary, austin, USA
Try negotiating that, Obama!
I cant wait til Obama get elected and my people will take over many more territory.
The major gift will be Israel destroyed for our friends in middle east. Thanks Obama, you are to be great american preident !!!!
We will control most oil in world.
Viktor S., Brooklyn, NY,
Alex from London: the big difference between Kosovo and South Ossetia is that US/EU did not take Kosovo for themselves. I do not agree wuth action in Kosovo, but there is a huge difference between it and Ossetia. Right now russia is reduced to stealing parts of terretory from a small country.
yuri, NYC, USA
@Ewald, Graz, Austria
What was the case in Chechnya and not in S.Ossetia: Kidnapping and taking hostages outside the region;slavery;transit of drugs and arms;military attacks on the neighbor regions. I wish the defenders of the human rights in Chechnya traveled there in 90s for a couple of months.
Alex, Munich, Germany
To appease or not appease? That is the question.
OOGA, Booga City, USA
to Sam from LA:
USSR (not Russia) during Cuban Army training brought nukes there. Did NATO or US take nukes to Georgia, I don't think so. And Russia during the Soviet Union has taken everything from people of other states and kept for Russia, including the smart people.
Alexander, LA, CA, USA
Sam,a democratic Georgia approached the West for defensive military aid to protect it from Putin's expansionist Russia.
Non democratic Communist Cuba already has defensive Russian weaponry, the Cuban Armed forces and officer corps have already been trained by Russians.
Spot the difference?
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada.
The Bush Adm. is doing its number again, in regions that are part of a geographic area that is essentially none of America's business. But for the idiot PNAC group that seeks American control over the world, We again mess in the affairs of others to gain oil and gas--our reason for being there.
Walter Morse, Crescent City, CA. USS
Putin cannot be trusted,Dmitri Medvedev his puppet is just as bad, the good outcome from this aggresion is that every country in the world condemns russia and sees them for what they are!
p. banks, simi valley, usa
Let's have it for Free Chechniya!
leila, manchester, uk
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"-Edmunde Burke-
I pray this thing gets resolved soon and peaceably as can be. But the strong have a duty to defend those who are to weak to defend themselves-
Brian Floyd, Berryville, USA
U people are not realizing this is not Russias fault..it's the West and Nato. They put Russia in a place to defent itself what would US do if Russia started training the Mexican Army? or what did US do when they started training the Cuban Army...how was that different then this?
Sam, Los Angeles, USA
Americans, when i read what r u saying - u look like ZOMBIES,made y stupid propaganda. It,s terrible wat happening! U took a huge part of teritory of Serbia, announced oindependence nd now saying something abt Osetia. U r crazy people.
Alex, London, UK
To phil pickervance, Denton, UK
Poland is already a NATO member, it's Ukraine and Georgia that should be incorporated asap
Margot Lynx, Paris, France
I knew that Russia will rise again and McCain will be the perfect President to stand up to Russia that enough is enough but Obama wins he will use words.
Lazarus, Dallas, USA
To jeremy, San Diego:
Eastern Europe against Russia! Are u kidding? The Slavs saved by Russia from the Turkish Ottomans and helped to restore their identity and states and save their faith will never do that. It was similar to what the US did for Western Europe in IIWW.
Plamen, Dubai,
The people from the USA need to wake up. We are wasting time here. What, were going to take on the Russian Bear while our Western European friends stab us in the back like they love to do? No thanks. Let the EU draw the line with Russia, and if that line keeps moving west though Europe,who cares?
Mike, Thousand Oaks, USA
To the victor go the spoils. Mr Sakashvilli was pumped up to statesmen-like dimensions by the USA who have totally misunderstood the dynamics of post-USSR issues. US rhetoric about the virtues of democracy in Georgia and Ukraine created a naive expectation that they truly are on their side. Duped.
Roger, Sydney, Australia
There was another government that invaded a soveriegn nation under the pretense of uniting the ethnic ties, followed by a brokered peace deal, followed by broken promises by the invading country, followed by the annexation of the occupied territory.
Nazi Germany.
John, Dallas, USA
Andrey you forgot to mention that Chechoslovakia was part of the
Soviet Union in 1968 when the soviet army occupied it
Rudolf, Niles, USA
If it's another Cold War Russia wants, then that's what they will get. The United States will not stand idly by and watch Russia bully it's neighboring soverign nations. No matter the U.S. President, Russia will be put in its place and once again defeated.
Jason, St. Paul, USA
QUOTE (Russia vowed to protect SO. SO decides that they eventually want to join their brothers in North Ossetia) QUOTE
Sounds ominously like a similar incident in the Sudetenland 70 yeas ago. Hilter only wanted to protect the rights of the German speaking people of that province. Yeah Right.
Jeff, Texarkana, Texas, USA
South Ossetia = Sudetenland
Who will you liberate next? The ethnic Russians of the Ukraine? Estonia? It's gut check time for the West and we are failing yet again.
Tim, Minneapolis, MN, USA
The armchair warriors need to cool it. War with Russia wouldn't be suicide-bombers and IEDs. It would be cruise missiles, laser guided munitions, and in the end 10,000+ nukes. Russia has far less to lose that NATO.
Joey, Toronto, Canada
Ex-KGB thugs run Russia in conjunction with the Russian mafia (basically one and the same) and they live high on the hog while most Russian citizens live close to abject poverty. This is just a thinly veiled attempt by the megalomaniac Putin to annex countries around him. Very sad precedent!!
Todd, Manchester, NH, USA
This was entirely predictable, from the day the USA and Britain first indicated that they would recognise Kosovo. The main difference is that they killed a lot more people prying Serbia apart.
Ron Sizely, Cambridge,
This is only the 1st.Russia will take back all of the breakway republics one by one.Ukraine,The Balkins and all the others will fall to Russian tanks.Freedom was only an illusion for those poor countries.
Gerald Taylor, Louisville KY, United States
Well, there are russians all over eastern europe. Remnants of the Soviet occupation. So, according to the new Putin doctrine, any of these countries could be taken over. Countries like Ukraine, Estonia, New York.
bob, Hallettsville Texas, USA
I am from Russia and I don't hate West at all. Buth Russia isn't right in this case if we all decided that US is country which can point every state on the planet where it must go.
US is a greate country, buth our Motherland will be live by Russian will.
Andrey, Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Well I think the "war" was an act of aggression by both sides and yet another proxy war with Russia will insue if people don't wake up. Russia get your troops back to your territory and USA stop policing the world..Let Israel do what it wants and Islamic states do what they want. Get USA troops Home
James, Colonial Heights, USA
I'm pretty sure that if you asked the citizens of South Ossetia as to what their thoughts were on formally joining Russian you are not going to be hearing many complaints.
SO already had de facto independence, Saakashvili wanted to show Georgia's strength by taking it back but he failed miserably...
Ali Mehmet, Southgate, UK
Russia is now run by a bunch of old KGB spies like Putin. Now they act like it. It was just a matter of time.
Ed, Greenville, North Carolina, usa
South Ossetians and Russians occupying South Ossetia and parts of Georgia are forcing Russian passports on Georgians living within their sphere of influence.
The USA should try this passport gambit in Iraq , then they could stay there ad infinitum...but Putin has an exclusive on the patent.
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada.
I wonder what all the russians here say about the massacres of russian troops in tchetchenya?
Can anybody tell me why Abkhazia and South Ossetia have a right to their independence, and why Tchetchenya doesn't have?
Georgia is nothing but to show a sign to Ukraine and to the baltic states.
Ewald, Graz, Austria
jaiyl
firstly, its called Taiwan. secondly its a free country so it doesnt matter what the chinese think about it.
which isnt the same as south ossetia where russian passports have been handed out and thousands of ethnic georgians have been forced out.
will, grimsby, uk
Iraq couldn't be dismembered, annexed and absorbed because their are Arabs not white people living their.
Nevertheless, look at history and ask Mexico etc what could happen.
Oh, why did GB not invade Zimbabwe?
Vishal Patel, London, UK
to Jack, Los Angeles, USA
Jack are going to fight?
JAM, Moskva, Russia
Worryingly similar to Germany in the 1930s...
Ben, York,
I pity Russia, like an old retired boxer trying to take one last title shot.
Jason, Milwaukee, USA
So we will have one communist dictatorship that is the EU on one side, and the Russian equivilent in the other! However, whilst Russia stands up for its citizens, the EU will continue to sell us down the river!
Matt, Napoli, Italy
Obviously now there is only one way Gruzia (aka Georgia) to unite with SO and Abhazia - to join the Russian Federation. :-)
Plamen, Dubai,
Russia needs a good swift kick in the back side, Still trying to be the bully on the block, I dont understand why we just cant all get along
mike boerner, great falls, usa
Has Parliament opened again yet? When it does make sure that if you are walking nearby you wear a gas mask for the stench of hypocrisy will be even greater than it usually is.
Alan, Frankfurt, Germany
phil pickervance, Denton, UK
Blame the irish for that.
they voted no to lisbon so we can't do much.
ramon, rotterdam, netherlands
I love the photos. Talk about war propaganda. The Russian soldier "adjusting" a Russian flag appears to be adjusting the obviously battle-frayed flag on his own Russian tank.
Mark, NYC, New York, USA
I totally agree with Andrei and Andrey !!!
Eric, strasbourg, france
South osetians received help from north osetia and won georgian forces pooled back.
so, as you may see from Putins interview to CNN (which was not published) you have a completely opposite situation to what media is portraying for you.
Ivan, Moscow, Russian
The west needs to wake up, and seeking support from the EU seems laughable as always.- NATO should challenge everything Russia does and integrate Poland and the Ukrain as members ASAP.
so we need to have a deal with cuba, japan and others? that's what u wish? 3rd world war?
dmitry, moscow, russia
To : Richard, Bexhill, UK : Not only Putin is using same old tactics, today he comes up with new ideas to invade vulnerable neighbour. ''Peacekeeping'' , defending citizents (with passports handed out like leaflets). Sadly we will see more of this because ex-KGB are in the driving seat of kremlin.
Dainius , Varena, Lithuania
I'm not a fan of Putin by any means but what if Russia signed a deal with Venezuela to put in a missle installation like the US did with Poland? I don't think that would go over well in DC. NATO shares the blame for this escalation.
Drew, New York City, USA
I think the USA needs to mind its own business on this one and not build any missile defense installations along the Russian border. Would we want Russians in Cuba again? Americans give more in humanitarian aid than the rest of the world combined. Let the rest of the world deal with this.
Mark, Redding, USA
Here we go again...The outcome of this crisis will clearly show us if the "international community" can be effective against agression of any kind, whether it be Putin's Russia or global terrorism. We'd better watch and listen closely, especially as we look to elect our next President.
Lou, FORT LAUDERDALE , USA
Saakashvili foolishly gambled and lost.Only his resignation will allow stability back to the region and defuse international tension.He must shoulder his responsibility and show true leadership now.
Robert Oligbo, London, uk
If the West and China present a united front, maybe Russia will leave.
You have the right to believe in miracles, but this is a bit too much...
Leonard, Sardinia,
When Hitler and Stalin invaded peaceful countries we did nothing and it set the cause of Democracy and freedom back many years! We cannot sit idley by while Russia does the same thing! We need to stop this with whatever amount of force is necessary! Russia could be a quiet desert for 10000 years?
Jack, Los Angeles, USA
Why do the Russian apologists continue to insist Georgia started this? Credible accounts (i.e., non-Russian media) indicate that Russian-backed separatists attacked first, the Georgians responded, and civilians were caught in the crossfire. Russian bombers targeted Georgian civilians en masse.
David, Kamuela, Hawaii, USA
The last line in this article is very telling considering Icelandair admitted this week on the local news that they shipped arms for the U.S. government to Georgia. This was done twice using Boeing 757 cargo aircraft a few weeks before the conflict began.
Eli, Reykjavik, Iceland
Russia could now be enjoying world approval if she had just protected the autonomy of the breakaway provinces and bloodied Georgia's nose a little. But Moscow's land grab is too brazen. No country, not even Iran, who needs a strong anti-U.S. friend now, has so far supported Russia's military action.
Richard, San Diego, USA
Sounds like Lithuania,Latvia and Estonia in 1940, and various other pieces of land that Moscow has had designs on over the decades...all spontaneously 'requesting' to be united with Russia
Richard, Bexhill, UK
when will bush stop the intimidation of other countries? what else can be said about this failed adminisration. let's hope the next occupant of the oval office has more between his ears. peace. steve
stephen armitage, seekonk, united states
OK. This is a thinly veiled attempt by Russia to annexe territory it lost after the collapse of the USSR - but it was the Georgians who started the conflict by indiscriminately killing civilians. Also, how is the Russian response different from that seen in Kosovo from the west? We are hippocrits.
Adam, Runcorn, UK
Leonard - Are you a Putinophile? Or maybe just a Russian nationalist?
Glen, Philadelphia, USA
Georgia invaded Osetia and it was only logical that Russia would at least try to defend the osetians. Osetia has tried to be independent since 1990/
ana, london,
Stalin was part Ossetian as well as being Georgian.
How long were South Ossetians nominally 'free' this time? 5 minutes?
August 8 th casualties 1500-2000?
133 so far.
Of course mass graves will be discovered in due course which might explain what happened to the 25% Georgians that lived there.
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada.
West uses double standarts for Russia.It's interesting,what would be,if Russia would offer half price for oil,gas and other resourses during next 5 years for all countries,who would change their double standarts,I mean who would accept independence of SO,Abkhazia and territorial integrity of Serbia
Alina, Ufa, Russia
Russia is a giant mafia, plain and simple. The "Don" has spoken.
This adventure into Georgia is a test, plain and simple, to test the resolve of the civilized world.
No one can argue with what the Mafia did in Chechnya...it's in Russian territory.....but this is a challenge. It's a chess game!
ronjamin, New York, USA
''Let Russia have Europe. ALL of it. Then we don't have to listen to different countries whining in different languages about the US.
They can all learn to do it in Russian.''
Best post so far. All of it includes the UK. The Brits talk funny too. Plus they already have plenty of Russian landlords
Frank, Canada,
Germany annexed Austria and Czekoslovakia in 1936 an 1938. Hope that Russia's annexation does not lead to a major war. The US and NATO fooling in Russia's backyard,the former Warsaw Pact area, is akin to Russia fooling around in the Americas - we have the Monroe Doctrine, Russia has her region.
Gunther Steinberg, Portola Valley CA, USA
This is what we expected, they will try to take parts of Ukraine and Moldova next. Tsar Putin wants to remake the map. This entire episode was planned for many years. The question is whether western Europe has the (you know what) to stand up to Russia. Eastern Europe and the USA do.
jeremy, San Diego, USa
At least the Russian liars are finally admitting what any thinking being has known sine day 1. The action in S. Ossetia had only one purpose; furthering their imperialist agenda.
Jason, Sacramento,
Where there is oil, there is a Bush; Where there is a Bush, there is a Cheney; Where there is a Bush and a Cheney, there is a CIA; Where there is a CIA, there is a Mossad; Where there is a CIA and a Mossad, there is a World Bank. Who among us, on Earth with this foul beast, remains yet autonomous?
Hooptie, NJ, US
Alexander from Moscow, try not to hate the West. Russia is a great country with legitimate complaints against the U.S. and E.U. But as our leaders have gone too far in provoking Russia, Moscow has gone too far in Georgia. Americans know from recent experience - military force wins you no friends.
Richard, San Diego, USA
When after first world war Russian Empire disintegrated, Georgia declared creation of independent state, but Osetia made a decision to stay with Russia. This all happened in light of events in 1917th.
In the 1918 Georgia reacted by sending dragoon expedition to punish osetians, very hard.
Ivan, Moscow, Russia
Manchuria to rejoin China?
"If things remain as they are and the regime for Chinese migrants is not tightened, several decades from now they will be in a position to vote in a referendum for acceding to China." says the Minister for Economic Development and Foreign Trade of the Khabarovsk Region.
Bogd Khan, London,
Georgia did it again in 1921. When USSR was created, South Osetia was assigned under Georgia authority by personal decision made by Stalin. Stalin as you know was ethnic Georgian.
Ivan, Moscow, Russia
With inexperience (Obama) in the White House we will see more from the Russians and others. Lets hope that the idealists of America become realists and elect substance over style.
Dan, Surrey,
I remember, they had two wars in Chechyna!
Yes: the 1st started by "democratic" Eltsin (and the chechens won the war and virtually the independence) and the 2nd by the "chechen freedom fighter" (and then premier) Basaev (and the cechens loss war and independence too) . So goes the life, boys...
Leonard, Sardinia,
Let Russia have Europe. ALL of it. Then we don't have to listen to different countries whining in different languages about the US.
They can all learn to do it in Russian.
Whiners.
JP, Chehalis, USA
"Back in the U.S.S.R. ..."
Joe, Waterbury,
What has the US done to help Georgia?They gave them full military equipment,trained their solders,put Saakashvili as president,gave him a lot of american advisers,US make all decisions for Georgia.Huge help in american style.They helped to attack civilians of Tshenvali,when they slept.
Alina, Ufa, Russia
"The US should let the EU stew in their own mess."
Just try . EU will find how to throw away your friends (poles, balts, etc.), maybe even NATO, and to settle down with russians . After all, better they then China...Finlandization, gasification...Name it as you like...No more Eurasia for you...
Leonard, Sardinia,
WW 3 is coming
Dav, Tiblisi,
Martino, you have forgotten Iraq, Kosovo, Vietnam, Afganistan ets. :-)
Steve, "What has the US done to help in Georgia ?" It has armed, trained it, and has pushed it on a genocide against own population. This help has enough.
thf, Krasnoyarsk, Russia
All NATO allies should be very careful when they are bluffing Russia. Putan showed that he can counter-bluff with Russia's nuclear arsenal. I doubt US is willing to wage an all out nuclear war against Russia even if Russia nukes one small NATO ally.
Eddie, Saint Paul, USA
However, this will come at a cost as the US and EU pursue their interests possibly to the detriment of Russia.
-
What have USA done in the last 15-20 years ?
Leonard, Sardinia,
Selective amnesia is an American form of thinking i'd say. The US has been provoking Russia by setting up satellite states around Russia under the guise of NATO making the situation much like the Cuban crises which the Americans found deporable themselves. Stop provoking the Russian BEAR!!!!
Sam, London, UK
Pavel,
The only country failed Afghanistan was Russia. Poppy production is down and the West is providing short term loans up front for farmers to grow different crops.
What do you offer S. Ossetia besides the yoke of communism and poverty? Why don't we ask the Chechens.
Tom Buckley, Worcester, MA, USA
All of those who wish "good luck" to Ossetians under the Russian "imperial boot", maybe you first ask the guys in North Ossetia who have been under this "boot" for ages and somehow they are fine and send help to their southern brothers after they have being killed by georgians??? Start thinking, ok?
Andrey, Novosibirsk, Russia
Ossetia has been separate from Georgia for 16 years. Georgia has been separate from Russia for 17 years. I think after that many years Georgia has lost the right to object militarily to the secession.
adam russell, sierra vista, usa
"Will Putin give passports to Russians living in Brighton Beach, New York?"
Will they ask him for them ?
Leonard, Sardinia,
Get ready, Europe. The war to top all wars is about to begin. Millions will die. Ruination will spread across the globe and mankind will enter a new dark age.
J Thadeus, Chicago, USA
if ossetia wants to join Russia so be it. It was Russia prior to Georgia's separation from Russia. As per the media, each side will censor for their self purposes and interest.
harj binning, surrey, canada
If Ossetia wants to be part of Russia then that should be their choice, not yours. If you believe in democracy then you should allow them their own free will to choose for themselves.
adam russell, sierra vista, usa
If anyone would like Russia to change its mind - now is the time for a 'regime change' in Georgia. Saaky boy continues playing his stupid games. The situation is becoming irreversible, but if new faces come up in Georgia, still something can be done .
Right (just: RF can't go yonder, & won't) .
Leonard, Sardinia,
Amusing, quite a bit of American bashing here. Well, then let's just go back to a policy of isolationalism and watch the world go back to what it does every time we try to just live our own lives. We get to keep our own money and ignore other's problems. Invaded? Go somewhere else 'friend'.
Templar, Dallas, USA
Karelia to join Finland? Khakassia to join Kyrgyzstan? Buryatia to join Mongolia?
Bogd Khan, Ulan Bator, Mongolia
Putin knows that he has the West over a barrel and can pretty much do what he wants in Georgia with no repercussions. The West's only real chance of forcing Russia out of Georgian territory is through Chinese assistance. If the West and China present a united front, maybe Russia will leave.
Brett Champion, Pittsburgh, Pensylvania, United States
About the lack of freedom in Russian media...I'm sure you are partly right, but have you seen your own media lately? Apparently newscasters here, despite their 'freedom', don't mind censoring themselves. In every nuance of their voice they proclaim their anti Russian bias, as do the articles here.
Maria, London, UK
Both sides are just doing what's best in their interest. US chooses to ignore the fact that Georgia invaded SO and Abrazia and decide to accuse Russia of invasion anyway. Russia seizes this strategic error by the Georgian side to exert its influence and enlarge its borders .
Right . No nice guys!
Leonard, Sardinia,
and what would you do if you were south osetian Georgian under constently fire from militants,would not you ask from goverment to end this ???
-
And did they end this ?
Leonard, Sardinia,
Firm Uncle Sam & Co failed to eliminate terrorists from Afganistan, just narcotraffic has increased. I wonder how they are going to solve these problems without Russia and neihgbouring countries, if even Great Britain twice broke its teeth in Afganistan in XIX century ?
Pavel, Moscow, Russia
Russia starts WWIV. Russia created and supported the terrorist of SO. A province of Georiga, not Russia. Then passed out passports like they were candy. Time for a DMZ arounnd Russia? The thin red line. We better wake up ans support our allies with overwhelming military power.
James, Houston, Texas
Wow looking at all the anti-American postings on this board I believe We Americans should get as independent as fast as possible and remove all our bases get out of the UN. In fact Kick the UN out of New York. And the world can go get bent. Don't Come to us crying wen your country it taken over.
Kris, Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
The Russians are paranoid. They are unable to understand that the same NATO alliance that will not meaningfully confront them over their military acts is really the best thing they could have on their border. Sadly, paranoia feeds nationalism and is a sickness where rational logic cannot prevail.
Scott, Atlanta, USA
With Czar Vladimir I calling the shots, Russia is resurgent. They will clearly have the ability to do what they like in their "near abroad" and the US and EU can do nothing substantial. However, this will come at a cost as the US and EU pursue their interests possibly to the detriment of Russia.
Mike, Washington, DC,
Hitler's tanks rolled into Czekoslovakia - 1938
No one did anything.
Stalin's tanks rolled into Czekoslovakia - 1968
No one did anything.
Putin's tanks rolled into Georgia - 2008
No one did anything.
People don't learn from history, do they?
Martino, Melbourne , Australia
Funny! Who are the judges? Dear people, try to explain to those people who were killed in Iraq, Afganistan, Serbia, and South Ossetia that it was done for the sake of democracy by the good boys. OK! Great.
Lara, Almaty, Kazakhstan
"The US should let the EU stew in their own mess."
The EU should let the US stew in the mess they created in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Many EU military personnel have lost their lives helping the US out of their mess. What has the US done to help in Georgia ?
Steve, Coventry,
I wonder whether Russia has any neighbour without border dispute, now or in the past ? What they have done in Georgia can only be compared to Hitler and Czechoslovakia in 1938 or Stalin and Finland war. They opened a Pandora box. What next - Chechnya, Ingushetia , Tatarstan, Bashkiria ?
Mark, Sydney, Australia
Passing out Russian passports in the breakaway republics of Georgia today, passports to the Russians living in Crimea tomorrow, where does this stop? Will Putin give passports to Russians living in Brighton Beach, New York?
Glen, Philadelphia, USA
Perhaps Georgia should try to become "another State of the USA" and see what Stal' ..sorry Putin,.. has to say about that??
It really is 'Yalta' all over again.
Keith, Dartmouth, UK
Isn't this another case of corrupt leadership being bought off. If the Ossetians are looking for independence then what is this? They could have negotiated with the Georgians for a fair distribution of power in the government. Now they are going to be under the yoke of a brutal corrupt oligarchy.
Matt, New York, USA
South Ossetia wants to be reunited with North Ossetia which is part of Russia. As an American I have no problem with what Russia has done. McCain is absolutely wrong when he says we are all Georgians now.
Sean, Austin, USA
What are the Americans complaining about when Russia is "annexing" land. The Isreali's have done this to the Palestinians - and continue to do so - with the conivance of the west..so lets not have too many crocodile tears and hypocricy.
harvi, Swansea, Wales
I thought the Ossetians wanted independence? There won't be much chance of that now that they're going to join Russia - perhaps they should look at what happened to the Chechnyans. Good luck to them!!
Kosovo wanted to join Albania . So what ?
Chechnya...Beslan is Northern Ossetia, you know ?
Leonard, Sardinia,
Mori, Fallbrook, USA
and what would you do if you were south osetian Georgian under constently fire from militants,would not you ask from goverment to end this ???
Rezo, Tbilisi, Georgia
It's a great opposition. Whatever you write about details. Actualy in Georgia we were at war with americans and western "hidden forces". We couldn't allow them to receive the control over the next regions. It's a big severe game. And not we are agressors there. You may hate us. It's your choise.
thf, Krasnoyarsk, Russia
I wnder, if ther still are people who really believe that Russinas did thtat to defend their citizens in S.Ossetia.
Ivars, Riga, Latvia
The Soviet Bear has come out of hibernation!
Benjamin, Maine Hamlet, USA
I would like to point out that the so called "invasion" of South Ossetia by the Georgians is no different to what our own British Army did in Northern Ireland. The Russians had no right to invade land that was internationally recognised as Georgian land.
Tom, Ipswich, UK
If these posts contained fact rather than emotions created by brain-washed educations (both sides), perhaps we outsiders would have more of a chance of actually learning what is going on.
Pat, Paris,
To LT, War - Landgrab indeed! You just try to apply your own standards to anyone else's mode of thinking. Russia have been a multinational state for ages with "colonies" living under a full scale status. You did it with smothering other nations for your gambling needs - are you sure yoã can advise?
Mariya, St.Petersburg, Russia
South Ossetia has more in common with Russia than Georgia, and after this little incident, have every reason to join Russia. The U.N. refused to recognize their independence, and rather risk another attack by Georgia, they joined with their only ally. What would you do if you were South Ossetia?
Mori, Fallbrook, USA
On the balance both sides are just doing what's best in their interest. For the US, it chooses to ignore the fact that Georgia invaded SO and Abrazia and decide to accuse Russia of invasion anyway. Russia seizes this strategic error by the Georgian side to exert its influence and enlarge its borders
Ignatius Ma, London,
The region in question broke away from Georgia because the population there is mostly Russian. Georgians initiated the attack on the region and Russia is protecting their people. People are making a lot of snap judgements about Russia because Bush is picking the wrong side. No world police needed.
Steve, Worcester,
The Russian Economy is about to go into Meltdown due to the withdrawal of Foreign investment. Remember Russia relies heavily on selling that oil to the west, without western money Russia is a starving bear. Forget about the Cold War, this will be an economic war. Russian's prepare to be poor again.
David Williamson, North Yorkshire, England
Does anyone see how hilarious this is? Russia was comparing the recognition of South Ossetian/Abkhazian independence to Kosovo's independence. Only when Russia 'recognises independence' what they mean is that they're annexing a neighbour's territories to their own country. Some independence!!!
Michael Ross, London,
The U.S. should intervene right away to help these poor people. They will be so grateful, I guarantee it. I mean, look how grateful the Bosnians and Kosovars were - they even provided recruits for Al Qaeda! Expending American lives, money, and diplomatic capital will pay off here too - right??
Noah, New York, NY, USA
30.08.08
European observers fault Georgia in this month's Caucasus conflict. Spiegel said OSCE military observers cribed preparations by Georgia to move into S.Ossetia, and suspected war crimes by the Georgians, including the Georgians ordering attacks on sleeping people.
http://news.trendaz.com
Ken, Northhampton, U.K
Did US find weapons in Iraq ? Nothing. But ! If US go out of Iraq now, there will a cruel & merciless citizen war, thousands of victims & migrants. Iraq will split into two-three states. Humanitarian catastrophy will be a real price & a result for the promotion of an American democracy.
Pavel, Moscow, Russia
Americans are charismatic in creating crises anywhere in the world, to serve their interests. Most of the crises are due to them. Chile, Greece-FYROM, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia.. Then, the rest of the powerful countries, UK, Germany, etc are charismatic in following the US leader; like puppies.
George S., Athens, Greece
eric... waht 1200 civilians killed in south ossetia by georgian troops?
jem, london, uk
You reap what you sow...
Dan, Winchester, England
If Kosova by the will of the people is allowed to leave Serbia,
then South Ossetia by the will of the people must be allowed
to leave Georgia.
Frank, Roehampton, UK
Russia has to fight back otherwise American missiles would be in place like it is in Poland. It is applalling nobody accusing the Goregian for start killing first.
The West has set a bad example in Kosvo so why not Russia then?
Asian neighbours did not support Kosvo independance either.
cheung, london, uk
yes wake up and do your research why so quick to blame Russia, Russia was defending South Ossetia who had been attacked by Georgia military, led by a puppet president Saakashvili . South Ossetia wants to be part of Russia probably for its own safety. The US have a game plan and the Russans know this
Gill, Liverpool, UK
To Mark, Ohio, USA,
Russians blinded from information from their goverment ???
I agreed with you but unfortunally you are not in the position to judge Russians actions. Two terms with George Bush as president and possibly another one with Maccain ?? You must be having a laugh.
Tiago, London,
pats, Samara, Russia: "Russia ..MOTHER.." This is typical Russian attitude. They think that they are the "Mother" and that other nations are "children" i.e. small, less wise and in need of leading. Russians should finally understand that all nations have equal rights and don't need any "mother"!
Lauri, Kaarina, Finland
funny to read those from the US writing about russia's imperialistic aspirations and wish that US and NATO send the military to the russian border to frighten them ... - not sure this "best practise" brings anything - it already prooved false in some many places. US folks - do the lessons learnt! ;)
Mikhail, München, Germany
Some day Mexico may roll into California and annex it, to protect it's citizens. Same difference same situation. More Russians in Ossetia and Abkhasia than Ossetians and Abkhasies.
J. Covey, Scranton, USA
View 1 vs. View 2; and vice versa. Same system.
Ultimatly we are all suffering the failure of our leaders, who instead of creating a more equitable, socially stable and safe world, as I believe we all mandate them, into a petty geo-political power game for interests that are not ours.
Rudy , Jhb, South Africa
Why is America using warships to deliver humanitarian aid?
Why is America meddling 6000 miles from home?
Why is America occupying Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq?
It is time for the EU to put sanctions on this bully.
Bob
Bob , Bradford,
So many people say that Russia is an aggressor but what about US.
What did US do in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Did they ask what people want or need in these countries?
They did what they think was right! Why is only US opinion right?
Russia bring freedom and democracy to S. Ossetia the same as US did.
Vladimir, Moscow, Russia
Vitaly, I've read the history. Moreover, I've been part of it: Russian troops as a rule do overstay in foreign countries, sometimes for long 50 years of remarkable of rusification and opression.
Jonas, Amsterdam,
This is, among other things, payback for Kosovo. Kosovo was, and should still be Serb. It always was, so why do they get to become independent? The leaders have expressed interest in joining a greater Albania. Why is Albania allowed to annex territory and not Russia? It's all a big joke...
Anton, Bordeaux, France
A lesson for all of us
Iraq has a oil surplus of 70 billion dollars
USA has lost over 100 billion in the war
USA will leave Iraq soon
Russia will never leave SO
Putin said the break up of the Soviet union was the biggest mistake of the 20th century
Russia is up to old tricks
USA never was!!!!!!!
Theodore Watters, Streetsboro, USA
The US and UK are constantly hunting for weaker nations to grab their resources. They have financed politicians and intoduce prostitute-democracy in many countries such as Iraq, Poland, Ukraine, Georgia, and others. Russia is civilised and peaceful as France, Germany and Italy. Please be objective.
Bruce, Paramatta, Australia
I thought the Ossetians wanted independence? There won't be much chance of that now that they're going to join Russia - perhaps they should look at what happened to the Chechnyans. Good luck to them!!
Stephen, London,
how long before the us invades another country with the pretense of democracy?
joseph, Florida, USA
Pavel, Moscow, Russia
Massacare is your bludy imagination,you wish there would be as many Osetian civilans killed as possible to justify your countries brutality...
Go to "Human right watch" site and get the truth...
Rezo, Tbilisi, Georgia
The Western World needs to stick together on this one. Russia has shown itself to be unworthy of western values of liberty and freedom and must be confronted. By standing up to Russia now western countries will avoid a more costly war later.
Eric, Virginia, USA
Partly, it's a matter of double standards on both the sides, unfortunately. I guess neither my government is right going so far, nor Pr. Saakashvili is M.Ghandi or V.Gavel. Russia should've stopped within SO, and the West could've been not so 'gullible' to Saakashvili being such a good actor
Andrey, St. Petersburg, Russia
russia will prevail... get on the right side now
peter jones, moscow,
I think personally that Russia is being a bit "americanesque" with its taking over of other countries, but also the fact that America is intruding on Russia and Georgia's war is wrong, if they can do that then Russia should be able to give iraq arms and Afghan poppies.
Sam, Hereford, England
To Bob from Texas: The arabs, as you call them, were great businessmen, mathematicians, astronomers, poets and arquitects before Texas and U.S. even existed. And, how you dare to talk about oil being from texas! It is a shame on you. I hope someday you will learn to respect n learn from others.
Carlos Omar, Pocatello, Idaho, United States of America
Russia must be compared to the creature which is infected by the dangerous virus. How such a creature must be healed? First step is to isolate it! Freedom fighters, Wake up!
Felix, Tbilisi, Georgia
Partly,it's a matter of double standards on both the sides,unfortunately.Neither Kremlin is right going so far,nor Pr.Saakashvili is M.Ghandi or V.Gavel. Russia should've stopped within SO,and the West could've been not so 'gullible' to Saakashvili being such a good actor.
Andrey, Petersburg,Russia
Andrey, St. Petersburg, Russia
SO people want to be part of Russia,it's their own decision.West must respect&accept it,if west is really democratic.New US dream is to see leader of Russia,who'd be spiritual,intellectual twin brother of Saakashvili,US'd tell him what to do.This dream will never come true.
Alina, Ufa, Russia
Of course Russia don't want more territory than it have. Main outward problem for us - military pressure from NATO. Stop raise inimical regimes, spendin' lots of money of tax-payers for it. Stop move missile bases to our borders. Respect us, as we do to you. We have only one world. Just cant lose it
MaX, Kaluga, Russia
Speaking as a person of Polish and Jewish descent, it's apparent what the Kremlin is using. Salami tactics. It has to be blocked, and blocked now.
Economic interdiction would be preferred, but if not enough, let NATO have Poland, Ukraine, Georgia, and other former soviet satellites join them.
Bill R, Greenwood, USA
A nice headline, just one thing, Russia has rejected the statement and called it premature and emotional. If Georgia had not launched a savage attack this situation would not have occurred, think about the 1200 civilians killed in South Ossetia by Georgian troops.
Erik, Gravesend,
Where were all of you people when USA and 18 other countries bombed Serbia for 78 days and took Kosovo away ? Its ok when NATO bombs because those bombs are filled with democracy ? Thank god RF is in the game again so small countries cant be bothered by USA unchallenged. hypocrites rule the west...
Ivan, Belgrade, Serbia
Oops, that was a short-lived "independence", wasn't it? Good luck, South Ossetians... hope you like your new Russian overlords, because if you don't you'll be looking a lot like Chechnya very soon...
thompst, San Francisco, USA
This is just part of a secret UN plan to conoslidate some aspects of the world before they come out and disclose 70 year + contact with extraterristiral intellgiences. Once the truth behind UFO reports and the entitties behind them are known the NWO can begin to build
Bob Wilson, Darwin, Australia
What a load of hypocrisy by commentators. A refresher for all: 1999-NATO bombing of Serbia w/o UN approval; 2001-US bombing of Afghanistan w/o UN approval; 2003-US invasion of Iraq w/o UN approval. 2005-unilateral US withdrawal from the 1972 ABM treaty; 2008 US-driven installation of rocket "shield"
Aleksandar Miskovic, Geneva, Switzerland
Lauri,
Its sout ossetia asking to be absorbed into the Russian Federation so they can reunite with their ethnic Kin, not Russia annexing South Ossetia. Why would Russia want a piece of Land with no resources and only 70,000(-1500) people? Abkhazia wants to remain independent of Georgia and Russia
Dan, Philadelphia, USA
We shuld stop Russians travel permits to any of the G/ countries. The Russians love Europe. That may then start the democratic pressure on Putin
Jem Smith, Barcelona, Spain
Ah yes Russia wants to retake the Former Soviet Union so it can again sell oil,gas and timber at vastly subsidized prices and be subject to guerilla attacks like the UK&USA for the agression in Iraq & Afghanistan. NO Russia wants NATO out of its face and wants to continue sell oil&gas for big$
Dan, Philadelphia, USA
The hypocrisy of the Western leaders is beyond belief, as is their total inability to see the Georgian situation fairly and objectively. Russia has been beaten down by the US for years after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Now they are simply saying: "Thus far, and no further..!" Wouldn't the USA?
Mark Stevens, Auckland, New Zealand
The Bush administration is a complete disaster to US interest. America cannot afford an enemy in Russia, but Mr. Bush does not care. US interst and prestige will continue to decline as long as current policies are being pursued.
For Geogia, it should bid an eternal goodbye to Abkasia and South Oset
Omo Olowu, Ikorodu-Lagos, Nigeria
Cutting itself from the entire world? What planet are you from! Obviously you live in your own world to say such a thing. The world doesn't comprise of just USA, Great Britain and the EU! Get your facts right first! Kenya, Venezuela, China and Belarus back Russia already....
Jason, Birmingham, UK
Mariss Freimanis
You live in USA and most probably didn't know where Belarus, Ukraine and Latvia are located. So don't teach us how we feel about Russia. USA started this conflict and now Russia is invader? You care only about Georgian "territory" not about what Ossetians think. I hate nationalists!
Andrei, Brest, Belarus
Democracy & freedom of expression are myths. Basic needs for peoples everywhere are security & food. If you know so much about bad people's intentions why dont you behave in such a way that you don't give them oppotunities to fulfill their bad intentions? Before you call others bad look at yourself!
Tawapa, Oslo, Norway
Rachael, Iowa, ... about Ottaman Empire... Please read history about these times and about what would happen with Georgia if Russia didn't protect them. Read also Kosovo history if you talk about whose land was it in before 1900... I read both sources and Propaganda in USA is stronger than in Russia
Andrei, Brest, Belarus
I was so naive in hoping that Russia and the EU can collaborate so that both parties would have something to gain. It seems I was so wrong. Neither Russia, nor the US want peace right now and frankly I don't know when we'll have that peace most of us want. The EU, as always,is caught in the middle.
Marius, Bucharest, Romania
I don't see a difference between a country joining EU and joining Russia. The world has become so interconnected that it's really sad that people still kill each other over borders. However, crimes against humanity such as Georgian shelling of SO need to be prosecuted. It's part of human DNA.
Sergei, Moscow, Russia
The US armed Georgia that on beahlf of US wen to war and
Russia got back S.O and Abkahzia on a silver dish .Russia is
imperialist !Put it other way around for the american natives killed like flys ,wich the imperialist country?Do they have a
country?Where is it?
B.Benzi, Cesena, Italy
To join Russia is decision of SO peopleDuring last 15 years Georgia showed its "love"&"care" in the way of violence,humiliating,killingPeople of SO all these years lived in half destroyed country without any oportuniity to change life for better.West must respect decision of SO.Where's your heart?
Alina, Ufa, Russia
Honestly. It sounds exactly like Kosovo. The difference? Kosovo didn't unify with Albania (they are ethnic Albanians). Naturally, the Ossetians will want to unite and within the borders of Russia is North Ossetia. Ideally the independence of North Ossetia and then a unification with South Ossetia...
Lachy, Brisbane, Australia
After the disgrace that was our involvement in IRAQ - MR BLAIR ........ we have no right to critisize Russia.
What Blair and Bush did was entirely for the sake of oil.
Russia would not have had any moral right to "invade" Ossetia if Georgian Prime Minister had not "invaded Ossetia"
Trish Niblock, Edinburgh, Scotland
"Oh come on you westerners, read the history". ok yes lets, where did the sovereign republics of the interwar years dissapear to after world war 2? estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. Russia has the largest ammount of autonomous regions in the world due to an ethnic majority in that region...
tom, sheffield, England
It makes my head spin reading what you people have to say. This issue is not as black and white as you think. Georgia should not have used force against its own people, but Russia should definately not occupy foreign peaceful lands. This issue once again revisits the idea of sacredEuropean borders
David, Rotterdam, Netherlands
When people say that Russia is holding much of Europe captive because of natural gas, why doesnt Europe develop a hydrogen generator that would convert the seawater to electricity and then use the by-product of pure water (H2O) for general use? This would put the Arabs back in the business of selling camels and cut off the need for Russian natural gas.
Bob, Texas,
West hates Russia,because Russia is independent country doesn't let to anybody to humiliate itselfReal invasion in G. has made US G.is happy to be obedient slave of US,they live by mind of US.Putin is bad for west,because he is strong,charismatic leader who loves Russia,does all his best for Russia
Alina, Ufa, Russia
Excellent article. I would go further and say that the West, annoyed at defeat in Georgia are now trying to provoke conflict over Ukraine where they are more confident that the Russians will back down thereby saving Western face. A very dangerous game, and no prize.
andrewC, birmingham, uk
To Lauri, Kaarina, Finland. I understand you being anti-russian cause Finland has always had bad relations with Russia. But now the US is the bad guy who wants to rule the world by all means, not russia. The U.S. Wants to attack Iran because it spends too much of their budget for education...
George S., Athens, Greece
Rick, La Habra Heights, United States
Man. what do you mean? Which United States of Europe? You didnt know geography. And you remember about Chehoslovakia, why nobody remembers about Vietnam, South Korea, Argentina, Iraq, Afganistan. Iraq is now US oil state. Note, OIL state.
Azat, Naberezhnye Chelny, TATARSTAN RUSSIA
Russia turns its head East as the US declines in reach and power. And reasserts its muscle now that it has regained wealth. This was inevitable. Conflict with the West will continue.....and the West will back down. It has no desire to fight unwinnable wars.
Ivan, Rhinebeck, US
I support this article 100 per cent. But Vitaly from Moscow should also know that understanding works both ways - yes, you can compare this situation with Kosovo, but you clearly don't know the first thing about N.Ireland. Why don't you go there and see if you can find any trace of armed conflict?
andrewC, birmingham, uk
It's funny to see how US has difficulties to accept that someone else is doing the same things thing as they do. It is obvious that NATO was slowly preparing final attack on Russia. Reading the comments of some people here made me lough..."You are cutting yourself off from the entire WORLD" etc...
Alexander, Belgrade,
The USA eqquipped and do maintain the semi-criminal regime of Saakashvili in Georgia and must share the responsibility for the massacre in the South Ossetia. There are no excuses for these crimes.
Pavel, Moscow, Russia
I want to thank The Times for the opportunity to have a say. None of american e -Papers do that. Never the less I am surprised west newspapers cutted in to pieces, commented instead of giving a say for last CNN interview with Putin. All the best.
Ivan the Russian, Novosibirsk, Russia
Georgia bombs S. Ossetia as it was trying to become an independent state - let see what Russia will do when one of its provinces or republics tries to go independent. I remember, they had two wars in Chechyna!
I am sure too that the Czechoslovakian and Hungarian invasion by USSR was just a holiday!
Mike, Melbourne,
Oh come on you, westeners. Read the history. Russian troops had already marched through all Europe but never stayed there. Yes, we did have military bases in the Eastern Europe, but so what? Doesn't US and others have such bases all over the world?! Mind you own business-N. Ireland, Cosovo, etc.
Vitaly, Moscow, Russia
i wish NATO had a spine.
Russia needed to do this after continuous provocation from the incompetent bush admin sitting in the U.S.
Next step for russia? They will open a base in Venezuela. Lets see what happens.
Thank you Putin to wake the U.S. and its poodle (UK) up and bloody their nose.
ht, cambridge, uk
Russia you have been so respected by the world, why would you do this now? It's sad. You are cutting yourself off from the entire WORLD. No one will trust your word ever again. Sad, very sad.
Tazil , Chicago ,
I remembered, going to school, in Escondido, Ca. Students found out that my last name was Russian. I found myself fighting from 4th grade to sixth grade. I was labeled a commie. Didn't physically got hurt, only my disposition as a living human being. It's bringing bad memories wants again.
steven sohriakoff, indy, U.S.o of America
If Russia wants to protect its interests its called aggression, but when America does it, its called liberation? I think the double standards have to stop. It is good for everyone when there is more than one superpower. Now we see the repercussions when one country acts unilaterally. Iraq part 2?
Joseph, Manila, Philippines
What does surprise those who hates Russia and very much likes Saakashvilly? That south ossetians want to join their native brothers - north ossetians? That they don't want to live with georgians? That they make russian passports, becouse they need work and need protect? Everything is obvious.
Sergey, Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Remember these words! All the former USSR states, Are going to join the United States of Europe. To protect themselves. All of this has been told. By the virgin mary. Yes, I know. I didn't believe either! I do know. Read it! Man I have goose bumps!! It really is going to happen. Iran as well!
Rick, La Habra Heights, United States
2 Lauri, Finland
Dear Lauri, Russia is the MOTHER of so many nationalities (few in the West really gets it). There's no practical (or whatever) need for Russia to conquer any other country. My father is from the Caucasus, my mother is Russian,and somehow we're happy together/
pats, Samara, Russia
Look at what leaning West gained Georgia. Germany, France and Italy can't afford to poke the Russian bear too hard or their gas pipelines will shut down. The US should let the EU stew in their own mess. Let the Italian navy rub anchors with the Russians.
Paul, NH, USA
It is so sad that the Russian population is blinded from information from their government. If you speak out of line in the press, you end up dead. Scary situation. The facts state that Russia has been planning to do this since April.
Mark, Ohio, USA
Putin has until Dec before the tactical nuclear deterrent doctrine of NATO is voted upon by most of the Eastern European states in question. Ukraine and the access to Black Sea ports. Ive witnessed units headed towards sealift on the West Coast US that took 2 hrs to pass. 1962 had MAD in place.
Brian, Portland, US
No surprise that Russia's Asian neighbours are not supporting them...they could be next? As for the CSTO countries they might not have a choice.
Darren, Vancouver, Canada
Yakkity-yak-yak. So whatchu gonna do about it? Russia got 6000 nuclear warheads, and can use them. Behave properly and everything will be OK. If America wants war, Russia can make things very ugly.
GCL, Chicago, US
Who wouldn't want to live in a country like Russia? There's no free speach...no free press...just a few years ago their people weren't allowed to leave the country without getting shot. Just a matter of time before that comes back????
Darren, Vancouver, Canada
For the ones who say "S. Ossetia" was never part of Georgia, please read the history again. The S. Ossetians were forced to migrate to Georgia during the Ottaman Empire. If they want to join N. Ossetia, please do, but LEAVE the Georgian terrirtory. And Russia should give freedom to CHechens first.
Rachael, Iowa, USA
Too bad your imagination is so poor Andrei. Imagine Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Hungary, Albania, Romania, Germany, Finland, Czechoslovakia and many others. Come to think of it Andrei, you don't have to imagine this at all. It was real. Russia is the last imperialist country in the world.
Mariss Freimanis, Tustin, USA
I don't know if the people of South Ossetia really wanted to be absorbed into Russia or not, but regardless, whether Russia had honest intentions (doubtful) or not, they have paid a heavy political price for it. Now more than ever former Eastern bloc countries will be looking to ally with the west.
Trey, Texas, United States
It is now time to build nuclear power stations & electric cars, that way we let Russia sell its Oil to China, & we wont be subject to Russian blackmail. I wonder just how long it will be until China goes in & helps all those Chinese living in Siberia become an independent Country.
Anthony, Ibiza, Spain
I guess we're heading for another 40yrs of cold war. And like the last time, the collective military and economic superiority of the west will prevail. We're doing mop up duty in Iraq right now, we'll deal with the soviets...er...Russians in a few months.
Semper Fi.
Walker, Austin, TX, USA
Shall we ALL stop writing words like "Russians" and "Westerns". people in RU "think" their army went in SO to save lives, which is a part of truth. SO is strategic way for oil, the only business of RU. Georgians are pushed out!! People in RU should trust less their government without losing pride.
James, Milan, Italy
if the south ossetians want to be with russia let them...what the hell business does england have in northern ireland..nothing..but you still stay there...all of you colonialists with big mouths..oops..I meant westerners should mind your own business...
yezmar, san francisco, usa
Russians may not have access to forums on what S.O. inhabitants really think - before they flee their homes or pay with their lives if they don't! After this landgrab - do you really think Russia will care about S.O or Az? No Way! Putin's puppet Medvedev is playing a dangerous game - for all of you
LT, Warminster, UK
A great reason has been given to spend billions to develop nuclear, wind, solar and biofuels and thay is to get us off oil and break the Russian bank. Once we reduce oil demand you will have nothing to bring money in and the Russian economy will go back its pitiful self.
Dan, USA,
Leave it to people in S.O. First the critic kilometers away should research how accepted the controlling body of S.O. is within the region, and if it proves to be well accepted from within, then the int'l community should advocate a referendum within the territory before changing borders. democracy!
Timmothy Lang, Croton on Hudson, USA
Oh, I wish that NATO, the EU, China and the US send military to the borders with Russia and frighten them into submission or take them out of the equation... This matter is only going to get worse. You have a very large country being run by a man that has short man's syndrome, like Napolean
Mark, Ohio, USA
The Russians are acting out of a paranoia that has its origins in weakness. They are not acting as a strong confident state. They are acting like the crazy old lady down the hall.
Mark, Manchester, USA
What do we expect from a brokered "peace" deal from the French. Good at waving white flags and nothing else. The west needs to wake up, and seeking support from the EU seems laughable as always.- NATO should challenge everything Russia does and integrate Poland and the Ukrain as members ASAP.
Phil
phil pickervance, Denton, UK
It is a pity! You accept not that truth "people from the West"!
Andrey, Moskow, RUSSIA
Don't bomb your breakaway provinces and peacekeppers and you will not be invaded by Russia. I can't imagine Russia invading any other country. Also S.Ossetia is not part of Georgia and never was Georgian land in XX century. Neither it was Russian. It's its own. But they want to be with Russia.
Andrei, Brest, Belarus
It's incredible that world is full of fortuntellers!Russia hasn't done anything apart from protecting people in Ossetia(italians or finnish were protecting them from killing?)but everybody knows what is on our mind and when USA with so-called friends have already destroyed some countries,it's ok!
yulia, Moscow, Russia
China will fully support Russian now because thats exactly what they want to do with Tiwan. Most Chinese folks will tell you that Tiwan is part of China. The U.S is keeping Tiwan apart in order to stop China becoming even more powerful.
jayil, london, uk
How is this exactly 'clear' imperialism? When US sends troops all over the world, this is not clear imperialism, this is the spread of 'democracy,' right? When S. O., a tiny spot of land where majority have wanted to join Russia since end of USSR joins RF, this is clear imperialism?
Maria, London, UK
How long before Russian troops march into another country with the pretext of protecting it's citizens.
John, Belfast, UK
After such a terror that Saakashvili with his western friends arranged to Ossetia I'd also ask Russia to be part of it, because Georgia will not stop till killing all of them in order to take the territory.It's obvious! Europe with USA will close their eyes again in order not to see killings...
natalia, Moscow,
After all Western hypocrisy, West is in no position to judge.
Russia vowed to protect SO and A decision. SO decides that they eventually want to join their brothers in North Ossetia. For Russia, Ossetians wishes are more important than all NATO rethorics and threats combined.
Alexander, Yekaterinburg, Russia
Lauri, Kaarina, Finland
Why does S.O need for us? Oil - no, population - no (many was killed), a beautiful bay - no, a fruitful soil - no. Do you know words - a conscience and honour?
Eugene, Nadym, Russia
Well Russia I hope that tiny south Ossetia is worth the price.Thumb your nose at the world if you like, you are now on your own to handle China.Your population is dwindling and your eastern border is being encroached upon by 2 billion Chinese.The Dragon looms on the horizon and you are all alone.
Ian, Austin TX, USA
Was the invasion of Iraq right?
Dantisimus, Split, Croatia
Was Iraq dismembered, annexed and absorbed into the invading state? Putin=Imperialist. He has been exposed to the whole world. Just hope the Russian people wise up to the fact Putin's geopolitical horseplay is "not rational".
Tim S, London,
Sergejs Puzins, London, The UK
this is so untrue,Georgian socity is very open to other religions and ethnic origens(unlike in Russia)...
at this time they are exterminating Georgian population from SO, like they did in Abxazia....
Rezo, Tbilisi, Georgia
The absorption of South Ossetia into Russia is no surprise; nor the signing of a treaty by the unelected god knows who.
The Ossetian people of both North and South will now never experience political freedom and national independence.
Russian imperialism is on the march, god help their neighbours.
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada.
Alexander, Moscow, Russia
You hate to much ,that's your problem...
stop hating and let us live as WE WANT!
Rezo, Tbilisi, Georgia
Did the US force Putin to annex new territory for Russia as well? What a joke.
William, Seattle, USA
If anyone would like Russia to change its mind - now is the time for a 'regime change' in Georgia.
Russia goes further every day, as long as Saaky boy continues playing his stupid games.
The situation is becoming irreversible, but if new faces come up in Georgia, still something can be done
savo, london, uk
Ghosh, how how much I hate you, the Westerners!!! Especially the Americans!!!! You want to deprive us of our ancient territory!
Alexander, Moscow, Russia
Putin should follow Dennis Healey's "first rule of holes":
- When you are in one, stop digging
The passports for territory gambit has failed. Putin's imperialist land grab will never be alowed to stand. S Ossetia will haunt him for the rest of his political career.
k saunders, London,
Well if the west can do what it likes and when it likes, why cant others act the same way. Was the invasion of Iraq right??
Dantisimus, Split, Croatia
If Abkhazia and South Ossetia remain parts of Georgia their people will be simply exterminated.'Georgia for Georgians!' principle has already claimed thousands of lives in these republics including 1500 victims of August 8 night.They have deserved the right to decide their future
Sergejs, London
Sergejs Puzins, London, The UK
Independence? Yeah, right.
Mary Catherine, Elmhurst, USA
Russia's aim's now clear: imperialism... BUT empire's based on 'hegemonic' models. What's Russia got to offer? A part for brutality and war, Russia has NOTHING to oppose the sought after Western model of liberal capitalistic democracy. She sends troops to annex territory...BUT nations want the West
Giorgio, Lecce, Italy
Russia's aim's now clear: imperialism... BUT empire's based on 'hegemonic' models. What's Russia to offer, a part for brutality and war? Russia has NOTHING to oppose the sought after Western model of liberal capitalistic democracy. She annexes territories by force...yet, nations want to be Western
Giorgio, Lecce, Italy
Well, so much for "independency" of South Ossetia. I wonder when the fools who so vigorously defend Russia will face the truth: the Russians want their imperium back. Did someone really believe that Russians wanted a truly independent (South-) Ossetia? Wake up, children!
Lauri, Kaarina, Finland